How can I reconcile my understanding of God and salvation with predestination?
Is it possible that predestination could mean a special calling, but not the saved?
Ephesians 1:5
ESV - 5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will.
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Asked November 05 2017
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Anonymous
For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
Scott S. di Vincenzo
See: Revelation 20:15. Those who reject the gospel do so freely and those who accept the Gospel have been granted the ability to do so.
- fallen angels (demons) & unrepentant human souls will die in their sins and suffer unspeakable pain & suffering for all of eternity with haunting memories of willful disinterest & rejection of saving grace.
- we are all guilty & deserve the same consequences and this topic is a very depressing & overwhelming.
-also, a pretty good reason to avoid fake prosperity churches who refuse to warn their seekers of the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15
Shirley H
I think we can never totally understand the subject of predestination with our human minds. We cannot ever fully understand. God wants all saved, but He is righteous. We all have free choice. God does not reason like we do. He is above us.
But, I think you are asking a question not only about salvation, but about our life choices. A question that asks for instance, am I born to be a teacher, or a mechanic. Is this determined before I was ever born?
If that is the case, my answer is that God has given us all talents. The same skill, or talent can be used in various ways. What we do is our personal choice. God wants us all to be happy. God wants all of us saved. But it is ALL choice.
The way to salvation, Jesus Christ is a choice. What do I do with my life to make a living is a choice. We are not puppets...
Danny Hickman
If it was a choice, a sinner would ALWAYS choose to continue in sin. How does a sinner choose to repent? He/she is led to repent.
The thing that makes me chuckle is that most of you (the collective you, not you personally) "it's a choice" people talk about YOU "leading someone to Christ." To which I say 'You can't lead anyone to be born again.' John 3 explains that the wind blows where it "chooses" and so does the Spirit (the born again procedure).
That metaphor goes clean over the head of a lot of people. It says that you can control what the Spirit does the same as you can control the wind. In other words YOU CAN'T!!
Predestination couldn't be any clearer than the word itself. Why it makes people flinch is beyond me. I KNOW I didn't CHOOSE Jesus. When I say "choose Jesus" I mean "choose to believe" Jesus. People say 'choose Jesus' and leave out the part about believing the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nobody chooses to believe. It is predestined for you to believe. You were put here to believe if you believe. The scriptures talk about being made for different purposes. Some are wood some silver, some gold, etc. (2 Tim 2:20).
If the people would believe the bible, that some will live eternally with Christ and others will simply die and not live, then predestination won't mean that God put some people here to suffer eternally, which He didn't. NOBODY suffers in a fiery pit for eternity.
The wages of sin is death; the GIFT of God is eternal life (Rom 6:23).
Danny Hickman
And this too: When we repent we turn from unbelief to believing the one that God sent, His Son who died on a cross for us. That's the sin we repent of: UNBELIEF!
Unbelief doesn't seem to be evil enough for most of the people who want repentance to be about drugs, alcohol, immoral sexual behavior, anger, pride, racism, hatred, etc. There are millions of people who suffer from the whole list that I just spelled out. You tell them they must change from being gripped by ALL OF THAT, and they won't even think about trying. But tell them the gospel; that Jesus died for people who are prisoners of ALL OF THAT, and that all He requires is for them to believe that, and their hearts will begin to soften. It's the gospel that does it. It's the thought that Jesus was sent for just such a person because He loves such people as that. You keep telling them to "make a choice," and they won't hear you out.
But God will save whomever He predestined to hear the gospel and believe. (Rom 10:14) We are redeemed (saved from sin, bought back from unbelief) when we (here it is) BELIEVE THE GOSPEL.
Repentance is turning from being born an unbeliever. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! (John 3:3)
I will never understand the ambiguity so widespread in christianity. The gospel isn't vague or unclear in any way for me. I was born an unbeliever to christian parents. I repented at 34 years old after attending church ALL OF MY EARLY LIFE.
I know why I repented; I was predestined to believe.
Shirley H
It is just as Ephesians 1:5 states. It is predestined, prepared by God, that all be saved. There are only two choices, believe and receive life eternal or choose to reject God's love and face the consequences of your choice. Again, we are not puppets.
Danny Hickman
Eph 1:5 doesn't say 'all are predestined to be saved.' The Ephesian letter to the church is just that, a letter to believers. Paul tells those believers they were predestined to be saved.... Why that is so hard to read and understand is beyond my understanding. The word of God is written to those who seek God.
Nobody picks up a bible looking for directions to a nightclub. People look to the scriptures for some sort of healing. Their marriage is in trouble, they have a wayward son or daughter, they've lost something they cherished, etc. God wrote to those people. US!
He is all the healing we need. His love for us is demonstrated when we look to the cross. Love heals!!
I have a 2 1/2 year old granddaughter, Kehlani (a cutie pie). I think of her when I think of Jesus on the cross. When I look to the cross of Christ, I imagine God seeing Jesus, His Son, predetermined BY HIM, to be nailed to a cross, the way I or anyone else would see our darling baby nailed to a cross. (It's only a comparison to try and show the indescribable truth of the love that God has for the world). He allowed the world to nail His baby to a cross to save the world.. (Jn 3:16), His other babies... (It is an amazing truth of God's love for us, as expressed by Jesus' willingness to go through with the crucifixion, predetermined before the world began). Hallelujah!!
NOTHING about the Lord's salvation is left up to us. He has mercy on whomever He chooses (Rom 9:15). It's called God's sovereign choice.
Shirley H
AMEN. God predestined that no one should be lost. He made a way to save us, even before we existed.
Take Adam and Eve. They were given one request by God. What did Eve do? She chose by her will to believe the serpent.
I chose to believe God. He told me I am a sinner. I could reject that, but I chose to accept His word and accept Jesus’ sacrifice.
Acts 17:22-31: Paul says that there is a general revelation in the creation itself. He talks about natural revelation and certain misstatements of Athenian poets. Verse 26: "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him."
God sovereignly created one man, Adam. Adam’s descendants formed nations. God designed their course (Daniel 2:21,22) that they should seek the Lord. God placed within each person a yearning for Him. However, many still grope in darkness, and haven't found Him. They choose the lifestyle, just as Eve did. Then, we know, death followed.
God does not force His Love on anyone. He waits patiently for each individual to accept Jesus and find that He prepared a beautiful Garden of Eden for all who believe.
Long age before the foundation of the world was set, the plan was in place for all His children.
TITUS 2:11,12: "You see, God's grace has been revealed to save the whole human race.”
Gary Wainwright
Romans 8:30 says God predestined “those”; therefore to say ‘God predestined that no one should be lost’ (or “God predestined that everyone should be saved’) cannot be a correct interpretation, i.e., “those” cannot mean “everyone.”
While God made a way for all to be saved, Romans 3:11 says no one would be saved because, “There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.”
If it was not for God’s calling (Romans 8:29-30) and His drawing (John 6:44) of “those” to Himself, then no one would be saved.