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S. Michael Houdmann
Supporter
In order to answer this question, we first need to distinguish between punishment and discipline. For believers in Jesus, all our sin-past, present, and future-has already been punished on the cros...
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Sarah Nash
Supporter
When I was walking the dark path of self-pity, loathing, adultery, lies, drug addiction and criminal acts I would pray and say God why are you not here for me? How much do I need to go through when you say that you will never give a burden we can not handle. I can't handle this anymore and I want to be away from this earth. The truth came to me slowly over years of secular therapy, medication, and finding women who loved the Lord and showed me what life could be like. The people that I have met through my church are so loving, supportive, and prayerful in God's name. Finally finding that in my heart has made my life so different. Am I perfect...think we all know the answer to that question. Thank you for all of the feedback on this site. Even though I always thought of myself as a Christian, I knew nothing. I still can not quote a verse, but I am praying and staying with people that love the life of being a servant of God.
David Riley
Supporter
I have been disciplined many times through God, a Angel came to me when I was a young boy, I know then God was watching over me, I lived a dangerous life in the armed forces for many years, and when I came out started drinking a lot, that put me in prison twice, there I lived among all types of people including people who had commited murder, but I felt that God was keeping me save, I have now asked for his forgiveness, and I can feel in my heart that he is there for me, I have been punished the way God wanted, and now I am ready to walk where ever he wants me to, I love God and he loves me, he is the best friend you can have, over the years he loved me but I could not see it at the time, thank you God for looking after me for the past 58 years I owe you so much, and above all thank you from my heart for your forgiveness.
James Kraft
Supporter
First John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doeth not commit sin, for His SEED, (the Holy Spirit) remaineth in him, and HE cannot sin, because HE is born of God. First John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. First John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we call God a liar. First John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Positionally we are sinless. But, we still have our old nature and we still sin. Colossians 2:13 He has forgiven us all trespasses. When we are born again, Ephesians 1:13 He imputes His righteousness to us, and will no more Impute sin to our account. He already paid our sin debt in full. We can no longer be condemned. John 3:18. Romans 5:20 and 21 The law was give to show us we are all sinners to bring us to Christ for salvation by grace. Where sin abounds grace much more abounds. But, should we live in sin just because we can? God forbid that we should walk any more in it. But, when we sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ who is our redeemer. When we were born into this world, our earthly father disciplined us. When we are born again, our heavenly Father disciplines us. Not to condemn us, but for our good. We are a child of God, John 1:12 whether we are a disobedient child or an obedient child. Your earthly father will always be your father, that can never change. Once we receive the free gift of salvation by faith, God is our heavenly Father and that can never change. He will always be our heavenly Father. We may get out of His will, but never out of our relationship. When we disobeyed our earthly father, he was still our father. When we disobey our Heavenly Father, He is still our father. When we confess our sins, we get back into fellowship with our heavenly father just like we did with our earthly father. But, a good father does not chasten his children over every detail of his chldrens lives. As we grow we get more freedom. If our earthly father can trust his children he gives them freedom. Our heavenly father gives us more freedom when we live right. Living right never saved anybody, but if we are saved, we should live right. Saved by grace unto good works. Not by good works. Ephesians 2:8-10. We are born into Gods family the minute we receive the free gift of salvation by grace, and from that point on we have eternal life which is a gift from God. Not by anything we have done or will do. But now, we can lay up treasure in heaven by how we live and what we do. We are rewarded even for keeping the faith. If we do not keep the faith, we are still saved. Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny Himself. His Holy Spirit that lives in the believer. Ephesians 1:13. But we will go through trials and tribulation in this life, and if we keep the faith through them, we will be rewarded in heaven. We all sin. That is why we are not to judge every one on every little detail because we all do wrong things. Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another mans servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, He shall be held up for God is able to make him stand. When some one takes the parking place you were about to get, remember the times you did the same to others. When we show grace to others God shows more grace to us. It is the law of sowing and reaping. If you commit adultery, the sin is already paid, but the consequences are still there. There are consequences for all sin, whether you are a believer or an unbeliever. The difference is believers have eternal life and can no longer be condemned. John 3:18. It has been said, born once, die twice, born twice die once. We all die because none of us are perfect, we all sin, and we all die. But the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. If we sow to the Spirit we will reap from the Spirit, if we sow to the flesh, we will reap from the flesh.
Lynda Hickman
Supporter
In Romans 7:24-25, the Apostle Paul, who referred to himself as a "wretched man" said, "so then, with the mind I myself serve the law of GOD, BUT with the flesh, the law of sin." He made it clear in Romans 8:1, it is when we are "in Christ Jesus" that we are safe from condemnation. It is "in Christ Jesus" we are able to walk not in the flesh but "according to the Spirit." Does that mean we will always do so? No, not any more than the Apostle Paul did, in fact, Romans 3:23 says " we all have sinned & fall short of the glory of GOD." Being able to do something & always doing it are 2 different things! In considering this question, I immediately thought of Ananias & Sapphira. Does that mean if we lie to the Holy Spirit we will drop dead? No! In Luke 12:10, in His own words, Jesus said, "anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, will be forgiven him; BUT to him who BLASPHEMES against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven." The word 'blaspheme' (blasphemeo/Strong's G987) means to revile, defame or speak evil of. There is nothing in the word's origin, meaning or it's usage anywhere in the NT that indicates that lying to Him is blaspheme. Who among us has not lied to the Holy Spirit? If we ever said, "oh LORD, I will never do that again"...we lied to Him! We didn't drop dead! Why? Because He knows that while we are on earth we are subject to it's influence. Just as one who is squeezing thru a narrow passage in a cave might come out with grime & slime on them, we are being pressed in from every side (2 Corinthians 4:8) by a world controlled by the enemy. But the question remains, like Ananias & Sapphira, can we be punished for our sin? I suggest that the real question is, were they (are we?) truly IN CHRIST? For Ananias & Sapphira, the evidence, as I see it is, that they were not. I believe that Acts 4:32-35 describes for us "those who believed were of one heart & one soul, " they were IN CHRIST. The Apostle Paul said in Philippians 2:5 to let His mind be in us, thus we can be "one heart & one soul." Then in vs. 36-37, Luke sets the example as we read about Barnabas, a Levite of Cyprus, who sold his land & laid the money at the apostles feet. In every Bible version that I checked, except for the NIV that substitutes the word "now", Acts 5:1 begins with the word "But." This to me sets apart those of Acts 4 from the first two named in Acts 5, Ananias & Sapphira. It seems obvious to me that these two were not among those described as those who believed with "one heart & one soul." I suspect that though they were in fellowship with believers, they were not "among" them & their sin was obvious to GOD & His wrath was sure. I heard a man say the other day that the path Christ gives us is smooth, but that is not true. It is the enemy that lures us away from GOD's truth with the smooth path. Jesus said that His yoke was easy & His burden was light (Matthew 11:30), He did not promise a smooth path. On the contrary, "broad is the way that leads to destruction" (Matthew 7:13) And if you have ever gone hiking, the narrow path is usually rough, while the broader ways give many opportunities to step over & around the rocks & pitfalls. We are told to "examine" ourselves (2 Corinthians 13:5) to make sure we are "IN" the faith, that is, IN CHRIST. And Romans 8:16 tells us "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of GOD" & as His children we are safe from His wrath (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 & 5:9) If we are truly born again IN CHRIST, we are safe from His wrath forever!
Richard Magee
Supporter
Does God punish us when we sin? Certainly not, unless you consider how He allows you to freely decide to lose a part of the fullness of your believe in God alone for a lesser sake of sin. Otherwise it is not God that punishes but sin itself and how it will continually gnaw at your digression and ruthlessly continue to tempt you to further adulterate God's purely made mind within you. And as a patient Father, God will let you see for yourself the wrongfulness of those ways of sin, if that's what it will take for you, His beloved creation, to finally believe and accept Him if not by blind faith alone. And He shall be forever there by your side, sheltering you still from the worst sin only has to offer. And will forgive you if you decide to turn away finally from your sinful ways. So then perhaps God does punish you by allowing your thoughts to stray from Him and his learning you.
Mark Vestal
Supporter
No. Believers are not subject to God's wrath or covenant law, we are currently under God's dispensation of grace (1 Thes. 5:9, Eph. 3:2, Rom. 6:14, Gal. 3:23, 1 Cor. 6:12). Christ received the punishment on the cross that we deserved (2 Cor. 5:21, Eph. 1:7, Col. 1:14). It is of utmost importance to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15), the gospel of our salvation (Eph. 1:13) that was given to Paul, from the gospel given to biblical Israel (such as the book of John) when studying the bible. Jesus, while living on earth, and the 12 apostles were to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, which is not you or I (Mat. 10:5-6, Mat. 15:24). The sin barrier between God and man was removed by the death of Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:22, 2 Cor. 5:21). God can now work through us once we've removed ourselves from His path (Col. 2:14, Phil 1:6). We can now focus on what we can do for Him once we've stopped focusing on ourselves and our iniquities (Rom. 7:22-25). Our apostle Paul received the revelation of the fellowship of the mystery from Christ ascended (Eph. 3:9), which was before kept secret since the world began (Rom. 16:25). Had this mystery information been known prior to Christ's death, the princes of this world would not have crucified Christ (1 Cor. 2:8). Christ's message to Paul from heaven, our gospel, differs from that of the 12 apostles to biblical Israel (James 1:1), who did works to prove their faith in 'times past' (Rom. 11:6, James 2:24). We, who are living during the dispensation of the grace of God (Eph. 3:2), are to simply have faith in the finished cross-work of Jesus Christ (Rom. 3:28, 1 Cor. 1:23). Works for salvation actually put us into debt with God as this shows lack of faith (Rom. 4:4). Basically, we do not work today in order to be saved, we work because we are saved (Eph. 2:10, Eph. 4:12). During God's dispensation of grace (Eph. 3:2) there is no difference in Jew nor Greek (Gal. 3:28). Believers today are members of the church, the body of Christ (Col. 1:24). God now sees Christ in us, and not who we see when we look in the mirror! Since we're unable to find our own way to salvation (Titus 3:5) we need someone who can, a savior. That's what it means to have faith in Christ, belief that He died on the cross for the forgiveness of all our sins (1 Cor. 15:3), was buried, but rose again (1 Cor. 15:4), so that we may have everlasting life (Rom. 6:22, 1 Cor. 15:22). When you’re a passenger in a vehicle, you have faith that the driver will safely get you to your destination. Jesus Christ is our ‘spiritual driver’ (Rom. 5:10, Rom. 8:32), and the Holy Spirit is our 'spiritual seat-belt' (Eph. 4:30), that seals our souls until the day of redemption (Eph. 1:13)! Our good news today is that our belief in what Jesus Christ completed on our behalf makes us the righteousness of God (1 Cor. 1:30, 2 Cor. 5:21). Amen!
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