For follow-up discussion and general commentary on the topic. Comments are sorted chronologically.
Danny Hickman
Shirley H.
I agree totally with you about the Spirit of God being in the redeemed and all the rest of what you stated. You are also correct in assessing that I don't care for the person, who lies constantly, in the office of the presidency. Where you lose me is when you say that we are to obey God and respect IT. I'm glad you said it and not HIM. I don't like pretending. (I call it lying on purpose for a purpose). I respect the truth and the people who sponsor the truth. I don't have any respect for a lie and for the people who base their existence and their lifestyle on the power of lies. That describes the man in the White House.
I respect what God is doing by ordaining this man to be leader of the free world at this point in time. I trust God. I know that all things are working together for His purpose, for the good of all who love the Lord..Rom 8:28. But, when I talk to God about the situation (daily I pray for the whole planet, everything and everybody in it), I ask Him for another way to accomplish His purpose that excludes having such a despicable person leading us, our children and our grandchildren. I have a great grandchild who is 9 months old. She deserves better. I don't pretend before the Lord when I say to Him 'please give us godly leaders.' I thank God for all He does for us, but I never thank Him for chastising me, or us. He knows our hearts, we can't fool God.
There's another way. I'm praying for that other way that doesn't include this despicable man.
Shirley H
Danny, I'm a bit late, just saw this. In response to the "it" question. I meant the office.
In this year we have more questions than answers. Who was truly elected?? What is the truth anymore? Who do we trust?
Thank God that He knows our hearts. He sees all. I pray for all the children of today!!! And for the parents! The world is in dire condition. I don't like much of the world these days! I love my family and friends. Even churches are somewhat of a puzzle! I know who I believe, and He is not in politics. But, to honor God, we do what He asks.
Shirley H
What to do, Democrat, Republican? Danny, I believe this is not the real quest. The Lord God is always first!
Jesus was asked, "Is it lawful to pay tribute to Caesar or not?"
The state/government is to be recognized in the proper sphere.
When Paul said this in Romans 13:1, his situation was not our situation today. Paul, as a Roman citizen, received special favor.
The principal, although true, is not absolute in every application.
Paul could easily acknowledge the Roman government.
The task of any government is to be biblically based. As we know, not all of the powers are that! The government is to be fair, just, trustworthy, protect and serve the citizens.
Romans 13 is wrongly applied when it is thought to condone all authorities as divinely appointed!
Paul, himself, suggested a test. Is the government a terror to an evil doer, and does it support the good citizens' interests? Does the government administer even-handed justice? Is it a minister of God within the civil life of the citizen?
If so, then it is due respect. The problem is, we live in a fallen world! However, always God first!
Even though I may not agree with the government, I am to respect it... these are people chosen by people, imperfect people.
The government is not perfect! It is not meant to be greedy, self serving corrupt...but this is our worldly condition.
The church must stand!
The problems go on and on. He is who He was and He still is I Am!
Danny Hickman
Shirley, your initial question/statement is the first thing I feel the need to address. There's no way I can "do" a political party led by the biggest liar ever to hold any public office. A man who is incapable of telling the truth. (If he has told the unvarnished truth about anything, I haven't heard it).
This is the question that should be easy for the church: who is the father of those lies that man lives and breathes?
Here's another question that's easy for a spirit-minded citizen: is the lie the root of all other sinful behavior? I'll help with that one; it is!!
This is for the persons who read here that an African American man will not vote for the liar: I don't ALWAYS vote for a Democrat. I voted for GW Bush when he ran against the Son of a klansman; his name is Al Gore. (To get my vote, he needed to publicly denounce his own father; he wasn't going to do that; he wasn't going to get my vote! I don't vote for people who don't support the American creed: freedom and justice FOR ALL. I think GW supports that).
So please don't think I'm "a Democrat," because I'm African American. (No party delivered us from the iron furnace, God did, praise his name!! WE KNOW THAT!!).
Medgar Evers was shot down in his own driveway because he was registering people to vote. The republican party is doing everything it can think of to take away our right to vote. Goodman, Chaney and Swerner were lynched for trying to register people to vote.
I WILL VOTE!! God willing.
Shirley H
Danny, I don't think it is any of my business who you have voted for, or will vote for.
I agree honesty is always the best! All I was saying is that you are correct in the misuse of Romans 13.
Our country is in serious trouble. Only God, who knows all, is sure what will happen.
It does not matter to me your ethnicity. I see you as a brother in Christ. The Lord is # 1. It is good to have a forum to discuss our beliefs.
I know you love God and your family. So do I. One day, we will meet on the other side of all this chaos.
I can't wait for all of the trauma in this country to settle down. It is time to see Jesus in every face we encounter. God loves all of us. We must realize that each person is God's creation. Now, if we could just have everyone on the same page as that, wouldn't it be wonderful for everyone?
By the way, a favorite movie of mine is "Malcom X," also the series "Roots."
Danny Hickman
Thanks for your response, Shirley. Yes, we will meet on the other side of this chaos.
Jesus said, 'In this world you will have trouble; but be encouraged, for I have conquered the world!' (John 16:33). That's what we have to remember to stay encouraged.
Shirley H
Danny, this section of Isaiah I find very comforting, and encouraging. I know it's Old Testament, but all of the Bible is for all believers. I hope you feel encouraged.
Isaiah 43:1-3, 4,5,7,11:
"But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, and He who formed you,'Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine.
"'When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
For I am the Lord your God,
The Holy one of Israel, your Savior.
"'Since you were precious in My sight
You have been honored, and I have loved you.
"'Fear not, for I am with you.
"'Everyone who is called by My name,
Whom I have created for My glory;
I have formed him, yes, I have made him.
"'I, even I, am the Lord,
And besides Me there is no savior."
Hosea 13:4: "Yet, I am the Lord your God, for there is no savior besides Me."
I think about this a lot, when I am distressed, and afraid, anxious, and all I want to do is cry.
Psalm 30:5: "Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes in the morning."
Know this, He goes before us, He is behind us, and He is in the midst.
Danny Hickman
Thank you, Shirley! Yes, I am very encouraged by ALL of Scripture.
Man must not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord (Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4).
Tomorrow is Wednesday, my day of fasting and prayer. (I pray every day, so the fast is the main event). The fast is a reminder for me to crave the Word of God with the same intensity that I go after the feed bag. (Ordinarily, I snack constantly; Wednesdays seem like 40 hour days for me).
Old or new covenant, the Word of God is a comfort for us. In the Scriptures, we have a gift from God that is exceedingly above anything we could ever ask or imagine. The Ancient of Days has spoken to us and let's us know he wants a relationship with us right now, right here, in this life and the life to come.
The truth of that brings light in the midst of a dark place. Yes, weeping will endure for many nights, but joy always follows those crying nights. That's God's promise. He keeps his promises!!