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S. Michael Houdmann
Supporter
Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Num...
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Jim Brady
Supporter
If you have any part at all in obtaining your "salvation" then you can certainly lose it. If, however, God gave you the faith to believe by His grace (Eph 2:8), then He did the saving totally. I just exercised the faith He gave me when He drew me to Himself. He seals you, He will keep you and His salvation cannot be taken from you, lost, given away or walked away from or any of the other popular ideas. The faith He gives is perfect and persevering faith. God's love and grace are not bound up by or tied to your performance or lack thereof. The security of the believer is secured by God Himself, not my works.
Cindy Jennings
Supporter
True Christians have accepted Christ as their only means of salvation and once the Holy Spirit has been given to them at their proclamation of faith, it can never be taken away. We spend the rest of our lives being "sanctified" but not trying to "stay saved." There are many who claim to be Christians but, in fact, only have a knowledge of Christ and have never trusted him for their salvation. They are not saved and no matter what they do or how hard they try, they won't be saved without the gift of salvation from the grace of God. God doesn't hang His gift over your head, threatening to take it away if you slip up. Of course we will ALL slip up! The difference is, through the process of sanctification, we realize when we have sinned and we confess it and move on without worrying that we are no longer saved. Our santification is to move us into as much of a Christ-like state as we can be in our sinful bodies and on this rotten earth. Sanctification and salvation are totally different things. Salvation happens in a moment of time and is yours forever. Sanctification takes a lifetime.
Andrew Hayman
Supporter
There are two Covenants, the First was the Law and the Second is in Christ. Romans 8:3 says that the First Covenant was weak - on account of us: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh..." So does Hebrews 7:18-19, "For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect..." These verses alone ought to convince our hearts and ease our minds that the Second Covenant in Christ was NOT going to have any weaknesses wherein we could be lost. It was not going to depend upon our flesh and thus be unprofitable, rather this New Covenant in Christ was secured by His efficacious work, as the rest of verse 19 would indicate: "...but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" This Covenent is strong and perfect and secure because of His work, by which I have been redeemed and sealed to become His very own purchased possession, Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. If I can still be lost this Covenant is not better and is still make weak through my flesh. But it is better and I am secure in the Promise of God!
Gary Patton
Supporter
There are many excellent Scriptures that state clearly that one cannot lose, or walk away for that matter, from their salvation in Jesus. Some of these have been mentioned above. My faith in this truth lies in the specific promise of Jesus, who died to set me free from God's deserved wrath at my sin nature and many sins, as recorded in John 10:25-30. There He also shares clearly also that He is "God, The One & Only", along with God, The Father, and God, The Holy Spirit. The naysayers to the truth of "once saved. Always saved", who quote Hebrews 6:4 as their proof text, would be wise to remember the words of Jesus' Ambassador in 1 John 2:19! Blessings in Jesus all!
JEAN KABUYA
Supporter
Would you read these scriptures please. Although some of them are already stated by the others in this section by Jim N. Like Hebrews 6:1-6 Please read and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to enlighten you and pray to keep THE FAITH AND LIVE IN FELLOWSHIP WITH HIM TO THE END LEST YOU BE LOST. If You have been saved and happen to deny (come to reject the Lord), you will definetely loose you salvation as stated in Hebrews. Ezekiel 3:16-21 New International Version (NIV) 16 At the end of seven days the word of the Lord came to me: 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18 When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[a] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself. 20 “Again, when a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before them, they will die. Since you did not warn them, they will die for their sin. The righteous things that person did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous person not to sin and they do not sin, they will surely live because they took warning, and you will have saved yourself.” Footnotes: Ezekiel 3:18 Or in; also in verses 19 and 20 Hebrews 6:7-8 New International Version (NIV) 7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned. YES YOU CAN LOOSE YOUR SALVATION. ONCE SAVED IS NOT ALWAYS SAVED Remember the parable of the 10 virgins. Unless you are found awake and full of the holy Spirit, you will surely be thrown out in darkness where there will be crying and gnashing of teeth. Even Paul stated that he keeps working his salvation to the end that he may not be castaway.
JD Abshire
Supporter
I realize Michael already referenced this scripture but for those who didn't look it up.... "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (Romans 8:33-35) "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39) Not convinced? " In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14) "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13) It would seem to me that if an individual believes he or she could lose their salvation, they in essence would not know if they had eternal life or any assurance of their eternal destiny. The Bible says you can know. Hebrews 10:14-18 "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." We should completely and totally accept what Christ has done by grace through faith, there is no other offering for sin.
James Kraft
Supporter
What shall we say then. All who call on the name of the Lord shall be saved (temporarily). And Jesus said, He that believes on me will have (temporary) Life. If our salvation depends on us, then we can be lost. If our salvation depends on Jesus finished work on the cross, then our salvation is eternal. Is it the spirit of God that lives in you that leads you to righteous living, or does it come from you. John 3:20 Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. If your heart condemns you, He is greater than your heart, and knoweth all things. (should have been) Romans 3:23-24. And this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have (temporary life) or is it everlasting life like the bible says. We all have to decide what the truth is.
Bukola OLADEINDE
Supporter
Been saved and remaining saved is a daily exercise. We need to ask for God's grace and strength on a daily basis to help us to be faithful in serving Him. Rom 12:2 says And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. This means that it is possible to be conformed to this world even after giving our lives to Jesus. This is the reason why Paul warned us to be careful not to conform to the things of the world. Renewing of our minds is a continuous thing that we must do until Jesus comes. All scripture is the word of God and i believe its to all believers who wants to know the mind of God and to live according to His will. 2Tim 3:16 says All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. Rom 15:4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope. Praise God.
Bob Hall
Supporter
I understand salvation to be like an egg. It is one and yet it is three. An egg has a shell, a white and a yolk. We talk about egg whites or egg shells, but in order to have a genuine egg, we must have all three. Salvation is similar in that it consists of three parts. Justification, sanctification and glorification. Justification is an accounting term. If I commit a traffic violation and am ticketed, I must pay a fine. Once my fine is paid, I'm justified. My sin has been paid for and I can go free. Sanctification is a process. It's the Lord's work inside me to change me into His likeness. My job is to go along with and trust the process. When the Lord is satisfied with His work in me, He then can glorify His life that He has worked in me. We are once and for all justified, but since sanctification is a process and not an event. Until heaven, we are still in the process of being sanctified.
ROSEMARY LUTCAVAGE
Supporter
i struggled & prayed over this very question for years & years. Not very long ago at all while reading & studying something totally different the thought just very softly & gently went through my spirit-: " Child? What did YOU DO to become a sinner? I immediately thought I was born a sinner, I myself did nothing to be a sinner except being born into this sinful world, I inherited Adams sinful nature. I continued on with current reading & again just a soft & gentle thought floated through my spirit-: if by bein born of the human race you inherited your sinful nature through Adams sin- how MUCH MORE do you inherit the righteousness of My Son when you are Spritually reborn into My family as My Child, joint heirs with Jesus, inheriting ALL that is His? Well, that stopped the continuation of current study. We are all saved by the undeserved, unmerited favor & gift of God. We the "Church Age" are under the dispensation of GRACE. When we believe on Christ Jesus & believe He is exactly who HE SAYS HE IS, & we believe God raised Him from the dead we are saved by grace, we can not add to it nor can we take anything away from it. It is DONE! It is FINISHED! There is no work that we can do that makes us more or less saved because all of our righteousness is as filthy rags. We inherit the perfectly beautiful righteousness of Jesus Christ. When Jesus died on that cross He BECAME SIN for us & nailed it to the cross forever. When Christ became sin for us on the cross, God's wrath & punishment for my sins were poured out on my perfectly beautiful Savior & Lord so that I would never have to be separated from God ever again. 2 Corinthians 5:21 states " we ARE the righteousness if God IN Christ Jesus"! (all emphasis mine). When I sin & yes I will continue to fall into sin & you will also, as long as we live in this fallen world, my Abba sees nothing in me but the blood of His Precious Son covering me & the righteousness of Jesus that has been freely given to me. When reading & studying the Living Word of God it is essential to use hermeneutics - now who is being discussed, what audience is being addressed because if not, that is where so many controversies come from. Paul who was commissioned for 3 years by the ascended heavenly Jesus in the desert was given at least 2 new "revelations" regarding the "Bride of Christ"- "The Church". One of these was he did not mention water baptism when telling others what they must do to be saved. He only ever said to "believe & you will be saved"- Paul was all for water baptism, please do not misunderstand me, but, he never added it to "his gospel" to the Gentiles. Paul was also given for the very first time, though we can see it all trough the Bible now, the fact of the Rapture of the Church before God pours out His wrath in the Tribulation/Great Tribulation. Yes, Jesus said we would have trials, tribulations & be persecuted for our faith in Him. But, God poured out His wrath on Jesus in my stead & will not punish His Children a 2nd time with His Wrath for a sinful people & world. Jesus Christ is our HOPE, during these last days & all days. That should make us all want to praise & glorify Him & live for Him, joyfully spreading the news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Gods blessings be with you all.
Matthew Miller
Supporter
There are so many divine passages to confirm, as well question, whether a person will or will not lose their salvation once they come to know who Jesus really is. To sum this up, Calvinist (John Calvin) wrote a commentary early 1500's, Martin Luther successor and beginning of Protestant theologian, fundamental doctrines of Protestantism. Calvin's Theology is well known as the 'Reformed Doctrine of divinity'. The triggering events for the enlightenment period and birth of Baptist denomination. Similar to the Catholic period, some branches of present baptist ideology holds that once a person attends church in a "Baptist setting" and accepts Jesus they no longer need to fear eternal fire, the place designed for the fallen angels. Many Baptists believe that nothing will keep you from entering heaven. The theory has it under precise guidelines, as long as you attend church, do the work in Gods house, and sing every gospel song for 45 minutes with a 10 minute preaching service (every once in while), you're going to heaven! Catholics bishops, priest, or cardinals preached those citizens who attend service, pay their tithes, and confessing sins committed to the mediator, they no longer need fear eternal darkness. For those who committed major sin, for a few extra gold coins and more political power, God would turn His head the other way. The truth about salvation is we can lose it. God will never turn away from you, but we can turn from Him. Worldly temptations surround our lives daily. Jesus must be part of our morning, afternoon, and evening. Our thoughts of Jesus and what He left us till His return will be the protection against the daily attacks. Do not be tricked thinking we can not fall once saved, but protect your self with the word of God, believe with all your heart God hears your prayers, and most of all never believe you cannot be deceived by temptation. God Bless everyone and I truly pray this will help someone understand once saved always saved is a false security.
Carolyn Hostetter
Supporter
I don’t believe a true believer can lose his salvation. I think one of the most significant and greatest assurances that God the Father lovingly promises us when we become believers is the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13-14) The Holy Spirit has a purpose for indwelling us and functions in specific ways. One of His functions is to testify to us about who Jesus is and who we are. Another is that He reveals all truth to us. (John 16:13, John 15:26, 1 Corinthians 12:3, John 16:14.) If it were possible for a true believer to lose his salvation, wouldn’t that mean the Holy Spirit was negligent in His duties? If we could lose our salvation, wouldn’t He have to move out of us because we would no longer be righteous? Wouldn’t that also mean that we, in some way by our actions or thoughts, have some control over the Holy Spirit? Wouldn’t that mean that we are co-controllers with God over making our salvation work in our earthly lives? Wouldn’t that mean that Jesus died in vain, or that His work was not finished, or that He would have to be crucified over and over again? Once saved, always saved may not be specifically quoted in the Bible, but I believe Scripture is logically explicit about the permanence of our salvation. That being said, from some of the comments, I see that the punishment for failure to adhere to doing the prescribed good works or to be an obedient Christian is removal, or loss, of personal salvation. I think that was our pre-salvation condition to begin with, wasn’t it? Lost? If that’s the case, then God hasn’t made any progress in bringing man into right standing with Himself since the fall of Adam and Eve, even though Christ became the sacrificial Lamb of God for us. The fact is, we ourselves cannot do any good works or be obedient to God. Any good works or obedience by us are purely the demonstration of the Holy Spirit living within us. By the grace of God, we are found in Christ, having faith, obedience and good works – not ours but that of Jesus Christ. Have faith. Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Murray Roulstone
Supporter
Please read Ephesians 1:13,14: "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.” The word "sealed" comes from the Greek "sphragis": "to stamp for security or preservation". Please think about that. The word "guarantee" comes from the Greek "arrhabon":"a pledge, ie part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest". Please let that sink in. Jesus said in John 3:3,5: "Most assuraldly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Once you are born again, you cannot be "unborn again". How is it possible that one can be born again, then, “oops,” unborn again? The wonderful book of John also tells us in chapter 5, verse 24, "Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has Everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death unto life.” The gift of eternal life, everlasting life, is NOT something you receive when you die, it is given to the believer at the point of salvation. So, if I can looe my salvation, then God is therefore a liar (which of course, He is not!) because the scripture just told me I will receive eternal life; yet if I can lose it, then it was not eternal life as Jesus said it was. Because He said, "I give to you eternal life.” Please also read Romans 8:38,39. In closing, may I say that I have 3 children. They will always be my children. No matter what they do or say, they will always be my children. I will always love them no matter what. And I will always be their father. If I can lose my salvation (which is not possible) then even Jesus Christ couldn't save me. Even though he shed His blood on the cross for me, He died, He was buried, and He rose again on the third day, it wouldn’t be enough to save me; because I got saved, but then I somehow got "unsaved,” which would mean even God Himself couldn't save me! We need to "nail down", so to speak, the security of our salvation in Christ Jesus, and move on in our Christian walk and win precious, precious souls for Jesus Christ, The King of Kings and Lord of Lords. To Him be glory forever and ever, for His great salvation.
D W
Supporter
Hebrews 6, for an insight into OSAS........... Accept the verses as they are written, then rightly apply them. Hebrews is written to the Hebrew people. That doesn't mean we toss it out. It means we "listen" to them, while rightly dividing and interpreting the scriptures there Spiritually, not intellectually. Intellect = flesh, not God's Truth. Paul understands that the Jews don't quite get what he has otherwise written, and what they have otherwise heard from followers of Christ. He writes the Book of Hebrews to assist their understanding. In essence, what Paul is saying is that IF IF IF a Jew inquires and makes a surface (intellectual; mental) acceptance of Jesus, then rejects Him to go back to Judaism, there is no more sacrifice for sin. He wants to convince them that while the temptation of returning to Judaism is great, Christ has redeemed those who believe -- it is totally unnecessary! It won't save them, it won't do them one ounce of good -- Christ already has done all for those who believe. And His Mercy endureth forever! His yoke is easy, and His burden is light, compared to the whole of The Law and Jewish traditions! Hebrews 6 is tribulational, as well. Remember that the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah the first time He came. It goes something like this: If you Hebrews, keepers of the Law, sin willfully (hearing the word of truth and rejecting it), after having been witnessed to by the 144,000 during the Great Tribulation, there is no longer a sacrifice for sins. You were given an opportunity to accept Christ as Savior by Jesus Himself. You rejected Him. Now here we are telling you about Him again, and you're going to reject Him again? Just remember - there is no longer a sacrifice! Your unbelief won't save you! You only have the assurance of a fearful judgment coming, which shall devour His adversaries! Bottom line: We cannot rush to judgment about the interpretation of scripture. 1 Corinthians 2:1-16, among many others, is our rock-solid foundation, before and after which we humble ourselves in prayer for Holy Spirit Spiritual enlightenment. Amen!
Don Pollock
Supporter
We are saved "by grace through faith" and if that "saving faith" fails in us, we will be lost. (Eph. 2:8, Luke 22:32, 2 Cor.. 13:5) If we do not keep our "lamps" FULL of oil (Holy Spirit) with wicks trimmed and burning bright (by the Word of God/ "Sword of the Spirit), we will be lost & miss the marriage. (Mat. 25:1-11) WHAT IS “SAVING FAITH”? "Saving faith" begins exemplification and manifestation when a sinful human hears the WORD OF GOD/Gospel of Jesus Christ. The “seed” of that WORD mixes with the human spirit of that individual, and there is created a “conception” of faith. That “conception of faith” begins to grow and produces a response in the mind, and actions, of that person which will include REPENTENCE and a "growing" all the way to NEW "BIRTH". That “embryo” of faith continues on into a NEW BIRTH of “water” and “Spirit.” (Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ & being filled with the Holy Spirit, births that person into the “kingdom of God/heaven” and makes them a NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus that continues on to walk after the Spirit according the WORD of God.) John 3:1-8 "Saving faith" involves NOT trusting in human reasoning or in the ability of man. It involves the recognition of man’s inability to be to be righteous, holy, pure, or free of sin without a “Savior.” "Saving faith" trusts in the saving grace of God which was manifested in Jesus Christ through His Life, Death, Burial, and Resurrection. That grace and faith leads to OBEYING the gospel (Jesus’ death, burial, & resurrection) by repenting, being baptized in Jesus name, & receiving the NEW LIFE of the Holy Spirit. EXACTLY like the early Church did in Acts 2:38, 8, 10 & 19. If the “conception of faith” does not move forward and grow to “birth”, it is “dead faith” becoming a "still birth". "Saving faith" does not die. "Saving faith" MUST grow to BIRTH and then continue grow to MATURITY. "Saving faith" continues in and through an individual until that person is "glorified", like Jesus, and has come to total "fullness"/ maturity. "Glorification" of that person will take place when "the church", the entire body of Jesus Christ, has come to fullness of growth and the LORD JESUS comes back for His bride who bears His name and likeness. ALL of this transpires BECAUSE "saving faith" was conceived, did not die/”fail”, and grew unto the "measure of Christ". Everything we do MUST be in FAITH, by FAITH, and through FAITH. "Saving faith" is given freely by God through the preaching of the Word of God (Rom.10:17). FAITH IS A MUST! (HEBREWS 11:6) “Saving faith” WILL produce action & fruit/work, BUT that action is the WORK OF CHRIST being manifest in a submitted/obedient human. Saving faith produces GOD’s work in us and therefore obedience and action in us. James 2:14 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?" (ESV)
Jose de Carvalho
Supporter
How does the doctrine of "once saved always saved" reconcile Revelations 3:5? The response to the question ‘once saved always saved’ is complex as it forms part of the greater doctrinal assertions of Calvinism and Arminianism. Due to lack of space it is best to exclude the extreme views on both sides. In reality there appears to be much similarity in practice between a moderate Calvinist and a moderate Arminian view on the matter of eternal security, although Calvinists assert that there is eternal security and Arminians don’t. Firstly it is important to clarify that the classical Arminian (following after Arminius) believes that salvation can only be lost by the sin of apostasy as in total denial of Christ. Calvinists claim that the eternal security of those truly saved is assured; however there are persons who profess Christianity but are not truly saved, therefore it is possible that these will apostate by the function of the fact that they were professors of Christianity, but not possessors of salvation. Therefore a Calvinist’s response to classical Arminians is that those that are apostate and have denied Christ were not true believers in the first place. If they were, they would not continue in unrepentant sin as Christians in sin are uncomfortable and disciplined by God. In the context of Revelation 3:5 the Lord is not saying that he will never blot anyone’s name from the book of life - he is assuring the believers of Sardis that have persevered in the faith and overcome the temptations and trials of life's that their name will not be blotted out. Conversely it can be inferred that the other Christians in Sardis who professed the name of Jesus but whose lifestyle failed to support their profession never had their names recorded in the book of life (Calvinism) or fell to apostasy; therefore lost their salvation (Arminianism). Having accepted the difficulties to reconcile the sovereignty of God with man’s free will, instead of theorising I believe it is best to take heed of Paul’s exhortation: Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves…unless indeed you fail to meet the test! (2 Cor. 13:5, ESV). Or if it is more appealing take heed of Peter’s exhortation: Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall (2 Peter 1:10, ESV).
David P. Larsen
Supporter
This one of those hot potato theological debates that is certainly a gray issue. Both sides believing you can or cannot lose your salvation can quote many verses to support their position. Both sides can appear quite convincing. Many of the verses quoted to support these positions are assumed to say something more or different than what the verses really mean. I believe the problems in understanding are numerous. First of all people want to emphasis certain Scriptures because of emotional need. We all as human beings do this. It is impossible to be completely objective, or know all our motives. "The heart is more deceitful than anything else, and incurable—who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9 (HCSB) We can easily get bogged down in debates about things that are a matter of semantics, phraseology, definition, or interpretation. For instance a Calvinist may say that you cannot lose your salvation, but if your life shows a lot of sin you are likely not saved, or never were, which ends up with the same answer using a different sequence of thought. Salvation is certainly secure as far as Christ's accomplishments on our behalf. However, we take an active role in submitting, and remaining in His love, whether in reality our salvation depends on it or not. It is a dichotomy much like a root that is connected underneath the ground to the trunk, and other roots, we just don't see it from an above ground perspective. We should live in His love without fear, because "perfect love casts out fear." The beloved Apostle, John wrote, "In this, love is perfected with us so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, for we are as He is in this world.There is no fear in love; instead, perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. So the one who fears has not reached perfection in love.We love because He first loved us." 1 John 4:17-19
Chris Eleam
Supporter
Various Bible texts indicate that Jehovah God has a “book,” or “scroll,” listing faithful persons who are in line to receive everlasting life, whether in heaven or on earth.. From the heavens the true God notes humans who manifest faith, meriting his approval and remembrance. We read concerning some Jews in Malachi’s day: “At that time those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another,. . . and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name.”—Malachi 3:16. Evidently, from the time of Abel forward, God has been noting, as if writing down in a book, those in the world of savable mankind who should be remembered as to everlasting life. (Matthew 23:35; Luke 11:50, 51) Anointed Christians, too, have their ‘names in this book of life,’ or book of remembrance for receiving everlasting life, and for them it will be heavenly life. (Philippians 3:14, 20; 4:3) In contrast, Revelation 17:8 says of those who “wonder admiringly” over “the wild beast”: “Their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.” A person’s being noted with remembrance and approval (having his name “in the book of life”) does not mean that he is guaranteed eternal life, as if this were predestined or unchangeable. Concerning the Israelites, Moses asked Jehovah: “Now if you will pardon their sin,—and if not, wipe me out, please, from your book that you have written.” God replied: “Whoever has sinned against me, I shall wipe him out of my book.” (Exodus 32:32, 33) Yes, even after God listed someone with approval in his “book,” the individual could become disobedient or abandon his faith. If that developed, God would “blot out his name from the book of life.”—Revelation 3:5. On the other hand, if our names are now in God’s “book of life,” or “book of remembrance,” we ought to continue exercising faith. In that way we will keep our names there. Similarly, as persons are raised in the coming ‘resurrection of the unrighteous,’ they will have the opportunity to exercise faith and hence qualify to have their names recorded in that book. (Acts 24:15) Finally, individuals so written down will be able to keep their names there permanently. That is true of the anointed as they prove themselves “faithful even to death.” (Revelation 2:10; 3:5) As to those with earthly prospects, by proving faithful now, down through Christ’s Millennial Reign, and then through the decisive test to follow, their names will become permanently “written in the book of life.”—Revelation 20:5-15.
Andrew Gonzalez
Supporter
This is a long part of the Bible, so what I will suggest is that you please read Romans chapter 11:11-23. It clarifies the Bible teaching. Yes, you can be lost. Paul gives a example about Jesus being the root, and we are the branches. We are grafted to Him, but we can be cut off if we don't remain in Christ. We remain by prayer and walking as the Holy Spirit guides us.
ainsley chalmers
Supporter
I came to Christ in my 40th year. That was nearly forty years ago and was the best thing that ever happened to me. Since then, I have met two people who initially confused me. One went to an Anglican school from year 1-12. I excitedly related to him how I had 'become a Christian 2 weeks ago.' In response, he quoted slabs of scripture and I was greatly impressed. Then, he said that he was an atheist. The other person was the daughter of a minister and went to an Anglican school all her life. She then read Dawkin's book "The Grand Delusion" and then embraced atheism at the age of about 60 years. I came to a conclusion about these situations. And it is that they never really knew Christ and had a relationship with Him. As Christians, we have a deep love relationship with Christ just like we have with our spouse, children, parents etc. And nothing can break that love relationship. And the love for Jesus comes from knowing, through scripture, all that He has done for us, how He is the source of all good things and goodness and love itself.
Kenneth Heck
Supporter
This is a very important question and the answers above are instructive. There seem to be two cases here:1) Can our salvation be taken away from us? 2) Can we reject our own salvation after gaining it (thus losing it)? To answer number 1, there is no way in heaven or earth that our salvation can be taken from us. For 2, the answer is yes, if we afterwards reject what has been given us, then we lose our salvation - and no sacrifice exists to restore it, since Christ was crucified only once, not twice.
Gerald Aaron
Supporter
First, let me say “There is no end to what I don’t know” But after many years on this earth, I don’t take any denominational slant. Jesus said, “He (Holy Spirit) would you in all truth. A couple of things to consider: 1. We all have free will. The angels have free will and 1/3 were deceived, rebelled and walked away from God. 2. The Bible speaks to those who have been born of the Spirit. An unsaved person cannot understand the scriptures. 1Cor. 2 3. The Bible and Jesus warned us of an adversary who wants to steal, kill and destroy. He desires for those who know God to walk away from God as the angels did, to rebel. 4. Colossians 1:23: Paul says talking about being saved, (quote): “If indeed you continue in the faith, steadfast and not moved away from the hope of the gospel.” 5. In Christ, you're secure! Stay in Christ. 6. Once born again comes the process of sanctification. At salvation, we all came with baggage and strongholds. We are to be conformed into the image of Christ. 7. Being a new creation, through Holy Spirit, we should be overcoming our past transgressions. Becoming Holy, but Galatians 5: warns us that if we choose to continue to practice our past and walk in the flesh, we shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. 8. Stay in Jesus and be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Stop trying to do better and just LOVE Him better. Real love brings obedience! Blessings!
Ed Smith
Supporter
Most of the New Testament was written to and about Christians, saved, sanctified people. And it is full of warnings to rremain faithful so thay we shall not lose our souls. Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20 (KJV) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Heb 3:12 (KJV) The Apostle Paul was concerned about himself. -- I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Cor 9:26-27 (KJV)
Steve Schneider
Supporter
I have heard the statement before, "Jesus is not an 'Indian giver'", and I have come to realize what bothers me about it. First I must say that I agree with the statement but it is inappropriately used by Mr. Mangus in a previous post, see below. *********** Robin Roush, I exceedingly support and enjoyed your wonderful answer(s) to this question. The way I understand what He tells us in His Holy Word is that "we are sealed by His Righteousness which is imputed to us at the point of receiving His eternal GIFT of Salvation and receive His Holy Spirit that indwells in us and resides in us from that blessed event in each and 'newborn' Christian. From an old saying from where and when I raised as a child, "Jesus is not an 'Indian giver'; which, means "He does not take back what he has given as a Gift". --Andy-- April 16 2015 • Report ****************** That statement, applied in this context, sounds as though Jesus is being accused or being brought into question. Which is not the case. That statement diverts one away from the topic due to its overt indictment against the person that it is used against. First is slaps the person in the face as though saying "How dare you even insinuate that Jesus would do such a thing!" And then to ensure the person don't dare run the risk of going back there, it drapes some guilt onto the shoulders of the unlearned. I'm not saying this statement is used with these malicious thoughts in mind or that it is used intentionally to induce these reactions, but, when analyzed this statement is much deeper than it may appear. Who would disagree with such an audacious statement, 'Jesus is not Indian-giver'? Wow! Who in their right mind would say, "...oh, yes he is an Indian giver!"? Jesus is The Rock. Jesus is steadfast and unwavering in his love for each of us. But we, as humans, can and often display traits that are opposite Him. We do it all the time... with each other and we likely are this way with Him. I know that I have been. What I am trying to say is, we are the ones that go back on our promises to Him. We promise to love Him and do His will but we are humans and therefore we do human things. We take ourselves out of His hand. John 10:28,29, "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." This means that no one can remove us from his hand. On the day of judgment, we will not be able to say something like, "Jesus... well you see... it wasn't my fault. I was doing fine until I was forced to abandon you." No one can make us do anything. If we give in, it is because we choose to be influenced. We can be drawn away as 2 Peter 1 & 2 warns. All would agree that Jesus is not an 'Indian giver'. He desires for use to be with him... "in the light". When we choose to not walk in the light as He is in the light, we have at that point, turned away from him and at that point we have fallen.
Anonymous Person
Supporter
The problem with the "once saved always saved" principle is that it does not account for those who later on reject Christ even after they had accepted and followed Him for most of their lives. Our Lord tells us that "He who endures until the END will be saved." (Matt 10:22) Yes. The gate is narrow, but after the narrow gate you still have a difficult way. There are some who will enter this narrow gate, but will refuse to travel the difficult way. These are not saved. The way comes with many obstacles: mountains to climb, river rapids and giant lakes to cross, deep holes that we may fall into, twists, turns, forks in the road, some areas much more narrow than others. All these things will try to steer us away from the Kingdom, to steer us away from LIFE. We endure it, with our Lord going before us, leading us, and guiding us. But those who have entered and choose to leave are not they who are saved. If it truly were that we are "once saved, always saved" then we would have to go by the standard that no one is truly saved until they depart from this earth with their faith resting on our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ. But it also must be discussed what in fact this means. There are some who believe wholeheartedly in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, but also believe that they are "covered by the Blood" and can therefore do as they please. They have the faith, but they lack the obedience and the compassion toward others (serving those in need as described in Matthew 25). Likewise, those who "go through the motions" with no faith are also not saved. And it is difficult to say that faith precedes works, because there are many who lack faith and yet perform good works for others (back to the charity example). The two certainly must go together, but to say that one causes the other is simply false. Anyone can have faith and sit idle doing nothing about it, and, likewise, anyone can go through the motions with no faith. Neither of these can be saved.
David Willbanks
Supporter
This is a difficult question that must be addressed because it has caused much confusion and anguish among Christians. The only way that we can find the answer is to search what the scriptures has to say about this subject, to pray for the wisdom that comes from above, and to have an open mind. Acts 17:11; James 1:5 What about Judas Iscariot? In Matt.10:1-4 we read that Judas was one of Christ’s twelve chosen disciples. Jesus gave the twelve disciples authority over unclean spirits. Mark 6:7 Jesus gave the twelve the power and authority over all demons and the ability to cure diseases. Luke 9:1-6 This included Judas Iscariot. We also know that at that time Judas was still a disciple in good standing with the Lord, because Satan cannot cast out his own demons. Luke 11:14-23 In the week that Jesus was crucified, Satan entered into Judas’ heart and he agreed to betray Jesus to the Jewish leaders. Luke 22:1-6 When Jesus was with his twelve disciples the night He was betrayed, He prayed earnestly for them and He acknowledged that Judas would be lost. John 17:11-12 This fulfilled the O. T. prophecies concerning Judas. Psalms 41:9; 109:2-5 Prophecies foretell future events that will occur. For example, God could foresee that, before He created the world, mankind would sin and need a Savior and Redeemer. 1 Pet. 1:18-21; Eph.3:8-11 God could see into the future and know that Adam and Eve would sin. However, Adam and Eve, (who were the only human beings ever to be in a perfect relationship with God—other than Jesus Christ), of their own free will, chose to listen to Satan and sin. In the same way, God could see into the future and know that Judas Iscariot would betray Jesus. However, Judas, of his own free will, allowed himself to listen to Satan and betray our Lord. In the parable of the lost son (Luke 15:11:24) we read how the younger of the two sons, broke his father’s heart: he demanded his part of the inheritance (which was not to be his until his father died); he left home for a far-away country; and he squandered his inheritance in a reckless, ungodly lifestyle. When his inheritance was spent and gone, a famine arose in that country, and all his fair-weather “friends” deserted him and refused to help him. He was destitute, and having “hit the bottom,” he remembered home and decided to return to the father. He was contrite, repentant, and asked only that the father take him back as a servant—not as a son. His father, who was constantly watching for his son, ran to him; received him back with open, welcoming arms; and proclaimed a feast, rejoicing that his son had come home. Then he made this statement in verse 24: “’For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.'” What does this verse say? The son was “lost” and “dead” (separated from the father). If he has been “dead,” that means he had been alive before he was dead. However, the son, because he decided to come home (he was drawn by the memory of his father’s undying love for him) was now “found,” and “alive” (reunited with the father) once again. Question: If the son had stayed in the far country and refused to come home, would he have ever been “found” and “alive” again? No. True, the loving father was watching the road, waiting and longing for his son to come home. However, the son had to take the initiative and come home by his own free will--not by coercion from the father. And when he did come home, he was welcomed back by the father as if he had never left home. This is called “grace.” God will never abandon us or desert us. Never! Rom. 8:26-39 However, we are free to walk away from God if we choose to do so. God will not stop us from leaving. Christians are warned not to “grieve” (cause distress to) the Holy Spirt (Eph. 4:30) or to “quench” (extinguish, put out) the Holy Spirit. 1 Thess.5:19 Other scriptures that caution us to remain faithful to God include: Acts 20:28-30; Gal. 1:6-9; Eph. 6:10-18; 2 Tim. 4:1-4; Heb. 4:1-13
Jack Gutknecht
Supporter
Good question, evidenced by the abundance of people trying to answer it. My wife and I raised 2 daughters. It was nerve-wracking at times because of the rebellion against us as parents, and we spent much time in prayer over them. (It was rebellion against God, if you ask me.) But at any time, did they cease being our children? No. I definitely think this is true as well for the person who is once saved. No matter how bad or how often a true child of God sins (and we all do), he or she is still God's child. He is in God's forever family. I also like what Joe McKeever said about this question: "The entire Epistle to the Hebrews addresses this in numerous places. For instance, Jesus is a better priest and a superior sacrifice than under the former system because while those priests were forever slaughtering sacrificial animals, “through His own blood, He entered the holy place one for all, having obtained eternal salvation” (Hebrews 9:12). One for all. One time for all time. Once saved, always saved." But did you notice that Joe misquotes it? He said "one for all" instead of "once for all." From other Scriptures, though, we know that Jesus, the One, died for "all." And it was also "once for all." He did it once for all.
Stephen Bostwick
Supporter
This Topic arose yesterday in our Men's Fellowship Breakfast. I believe we can lose our Salvation. The below is a good example. Acts 5 starting with verse 5: Ananias and Sapphira 5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. 3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” 9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” 10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
Benjamin Pena
Supporter
Benjamin Pena The Holy Scripture itself settles the issue on this topic, and certainly gives us the answer. The final answer can be found in the last book of the Bible, the book of Revelation, which will clearly tell us about those who will be saved and will stand at the Judgment Seat of Christ, and those who will be lost and stand at the Great White Judgment. To this point I want you to read the 7 Letters to the Churches for yourself, and take note of the repeating phrase.. "To him who overcomes.." said by our Lord Jesus Christ, particularly in Rev 3:5; 20:15; 22:19;2:11. Take note also that there is no doubt that the Lord Jesus is sending the message to the Church, those who already received salvation in Christ. After reading the said verses, ask the Holy Spirit to give you the answer because He is the Spirit of Truth.
Ben Jones
Supporter
To say that a born again Christian can lose his or her salvation means that Satan is more powerful than is Jesus Christ! You are saying Satan can un-save a saved Christian! A Christian is not someone that decided one day that he needs salvation and seeks for God, (impossible according to Romans 3:11) a Christian is one that was born again by the will and power of God. John 1:13: "Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." You were born the first time by the union of your mother and your father. You can never "unborn" yourself. You were born again by the will of God and you cannot "unborn" yourself here either. In 1 John 3:8b we read, "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." Christ destroyed "the works of the devil" because He is more powerful than Satan as shown by Christ's account of the fully armed strong man in Luke 11:21-22 "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; but when one stronger than he attacks him and overcomes him, he takes away his armor in which he trusted and divides his spoil." In order for a person to lose their salvation Satan must overcome that person and that is impossible according to 1 John 5:4: "For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." Where did we get the faith that overcomes? From the Father of lights. James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." We are in Christ, not because we hold Him in our hands, but because He holds us in His. John 10:28 "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." Eternal life means just that; eternal, just as Jesus is eternal, so is our life in Him. No where in the scriptures will you find the words "eternal life" when the scriptures are speaking of Hell. Hell is eternal punishment, eternal destruction, eternal judgment, eternal chains and eternal fire, but never eternal life.
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