Mark Vestal Supporter Proud of nothing of myself. Freed by Christ who did it all!

Interestingly, there was contention regarding the timing of when being "caught up in the clouds" (1 Thes 4:17) would occur even prior to the completion of the Bible.

2 Tim 2:16-19
"But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

Paul stated that the error in believing that the "resurrection" (to include the following 'catching away') had come and gone overthrew the faith of some. This comment alone from Paul tells that the resurrection and 'catching away' was expected to come prior to the tribulation, otherwise the faith of some would not have been overturned with a loss in that hope.

In contrast, belief in a mid or post-tribulation 'catching away' would imply that the church, the body of Christ, must by necessity "endure unto the end", and that believers today would in fact be subject to God's coming wrath, but then saved by their own merits during it. This is contrary to the gospel of God's age of grace today (Eph 3:2).

1 Thes 5:9-11
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

The answer to the question could be due to a simple misunderstanding that the catching away of the church, the body of Christ, is not the same 'taking' of Israel's believing remnant, that actually is directly related to the tribulation (Matt 24).

Another possibility is that by convincing believers that the tribulation could play a part in a believer's lifetime, a works-based path to salvation would then exist. One could easily be persuaded to follow any presented false doctrine and fall prey to those seeking personal benefit from their false teachings.

Rom 16:17-18
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

A final (more sinister) purpose of disregarding a pre-tribulation 'rapture' would be of Satan and his "ministers of righteousness" for the purpose of hiding the truth found in the cross of Christ, which is God's love for humanity and salvation being the free unmerited gift of God by having faith alone in Him alone during this current age of God's outpouring of grace, not wrath (Eph 2:8-9).

2 Cor 11:3-4
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Cont... 

2 Cor 11:13-15
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

July 22 2024 • 0 responses • Vote Up • Share • Report

Paula Fether Supporter Lifelong student of the scriptures

When looking for answers about a particular teaching in scripture, scripture is the first place we should look. And when we do, we see an event described for Jesus meeting us in the air to take us to his Father's house, and these passages make no mention of signs, the Antichrist, or terrible times. Context is of the utmost importance.

The letters of Paul were of course written in the first century, so we wouldn't expect a lot of commentary so soon. And error crept into many such commentaries after the apostles had all died. The first council of Nicaea dealt with the heresies of Arius, who taught against the Trinity. These were the issues the early church wrote about.

The absence of extra-Biblical writing on a given topic can't be treated as an argument against it; that's a fallacy called "argument from silence". And as time went on, there was persecution by the state church for even translating the Bible into the common tongue, so why should we rely so much on secondary issues?

Look to the scriptures for authoritative teachings, and remember that commentaries are just opinions of fallible people. The Rapture is clearly taught in scripture, and the events included in it have not yet happened... but we can be sure they will. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus!"

July 23 2024 • 11 responses • Vote Up • Share • Report

Jennifer Rothnie Supporter Housewife, Artist, Perpetually Curious

I do not think the modern theory of a pretribulation rapture is true, which would be why we haven't found strong evidence of it being taught by the early church fathers and early believers. However, we should recognize that we don't have access to all the writings of the early church, so we should be careful building arguments for or against something from mere silence alone.

The biggest evidence against the pre-tribulation rapture theory isn't the silence from early church fathers or manuscripts, but from scripture itself. The two biggest scriptural weaknesses of the pre-trib rapture theory are reading in a separate rapture scenario into passages which contextually and by word-use/symbolism are about the Second Coming of Christ, the blessed hope of all Christians, and mixing up the concepts of wrath and tribulation which are not the same.

I Thess 4:13-18 is often pointed to as a main, if not the main, prooftext for the pre-tribulation rapture theory, and yet it undermines and even contradicts the theory when examined.

I Thess 4:17 gives the meeting place of where Jesus will bring those who have fallen asleep to us at "the coming of the Lord." In Greek the term is 'aer' which is used of the lower atmosphere where living things, like trees and birds and people, live. This isn't above the clouds and out of sight, or the clouds of heaven.

The phrasing used "meet the Lord" is a common Greek phrase used for a group of people leaving their home city or country to meet an incoming delegate or King. They all meet halfway or somewhere between their homes. Then they escort the King/delegate back to their own country so the King may take his throne or the delegate conduct peace talks, etc.

So in the case of Christ descending to the lower clouds and the humans meeting Christ in the lower air, the implication of the phrase is that this is one of those meetings of two parties. We all then 'escort' Christ to Earth.

So, the final destination here is back to Earth, not to the atmosphere or to heaven. 

This is the second coming of Christ, which all the peoples of the earth will view! (Matt 24:31-32, Rev 11:15-18, Rev 1:7, Rev 16:15, Heb 9:28, II Pet 3:10, Acts 1:10-11, John 6:39-40, Matt 16:27, Col 3:4, Acts 17:31, Luke 21:27, Luke 9:26, John 5:28-29, Matt 24:27, Matt 25:31-32, II Thess 1:5-10, Psalm 96:13, II Tim 4:1, and so forth.)

It appears Christ will at this point set up a Millennial Kingdom on Earth, although theories regarding the particulars of that vary. It's sometimes hard to know whether a verse has the Millennial Kingdom or God's eternal Kingdom in mind.

As for the pre-trib rapture theory mixing up the concepts of wrath and tribulation, there isn't space to cover that side topic so I will link to it: http://ebible.com/answers/8456?ori=167400

In summary, though, God's wrath is an outpouring of judgement on Earth. One soon-coming point of wrath in the NT is the wrath that will soon fall on Jerusalem, leading to the destruction of the city, as they did not nationally repent and accept the Messiah but crucified Him instead. 

Tribulation, in contrast, is a time of trial for believers. It usually includes persecution from the unbelievers and from Earthly governments, though it may also involve natural disasters or coincide with God pouring out His wrath.

Believers will face trials and tribulations, but we do not face God's wrath ourselves since we are in Christ and not under condemnation.

Two other verses to consider on the Second Coming of Christ, which is linked both with judgement/wrath on the world and the Resurrection of believers, and why a secret rapture doesn't fit in:

"So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." Heb 9:28

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."" Rev 1:7

July 22 2024 • 0 responses • Vote Up • Share • Report